#8217;s going to open up in the future, who knows. I think the word profound, I think that&#8217;s the exact appropriate word at this point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, all of this light that we&#8217;re shining on it, I presume there&#8217;s still things that you would like to fix. Things that don&#8217;t yet work as expected, that maybe some things which you&#8217;ll never be able to overcome, given the state of what browsers can do at the moment. Should we just talk about that? What are some of the limitations that you know of at the moment?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:28] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. So not all PHP extensions are supported in the browser, and we support more every month. But not yet at the place where you would have 100%. It&#8217;ll never be 100% right? Like for example, you cannot use Curl in a web browser. You can use it in a node version of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re just bringing in support for different image formats. So WebP and surprisingly jpeg. Png was already in there. Network is a large challenge. So WordPress would sometimes open, let me speak with a little bit more jargon. WordPress would sometimes open a TCP sockets to specific addresses, and you don&#8217;t have that API in the browser, right. You can only do fetch and few more things, but not that. So that may never be supported. Like if browsers had that, it would be large security risk. You can however do that in a node version of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The database support. I think all core features work well. And we even had a 99% of unit tests passing in Playground. But there are some plugins using MySQL features that are not yet supported. So I think one of them is select union. So we still have some work to do with the database support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So by default Playground doesn&#8217;t have access to network, and you have to enable it in Playground options. That&#8217;s a performance thing. Playground is significantly slower with that. So just to give everyone snappy experience by default. However, we do have something going on to have networking by default and also have it being very performant. That will hopefully go away sometime soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And honestly, like we&#8217;re learning about new limitations. Yeah, I would say like every week of every month, people come to Playground repository, they ask about their use case and someone wanted to use soap client. It&#8217;s not supported at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Someone else wanted to run a real server, right? So send a link to someone, somewhere and it&#8217;s just running in your browser. So we cannot really do that at the moment. But maybe it will be possible actually in the future. Like, I&#8217;m playing with a few ideas about that. So if you use Playground and something isn&#8217;t working right, come say hi to the Meta Playground channel on WordPress org Slack, or the WordPress slash WordPress dash Playground repository on GitHub, and tell us, we may not know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:50] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I feel like you&#8217;ve created a bit of an iPhone moment with WordPress. What I mean by that was, everybody had a mobile phone prior to the iPhone, and then the iPhone came along, and then everybody really wanted an iPhone because it was so profoundly different. And it feels like you&#8217;ve done something profoundly different with WordPress, and when apps came along and suddenly, yeah, there was an iPhone, but it was an iPhone and it looked nice and everything, and then apps came along and made the iPhone more profoundly interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;ve enabled more profoundly interesting things to be done with WordPress than could be done two years ago, and the supplying of that is crucial. But it&#8217;ll be interesting if we have this conversation in, let&#8217;s say three years time, I think the real interest will be, not necessarily the Playground bit, and forgive me, I&#8217;m not denigrating what you&#8217;ve done because it&#8217;s remarkable, but it&#8217;s what everybody will do with the Playground that you&#8217;ve built. And the unique things that they&#8217;ve created. And the hither to as yet unimagined things, which will become commonplace and normal with WordPress, that at the moment nobody&#8217;s even conceived. And you&#8217;ve hinted at a few of those now. And so you&#8217;ve genuinely stirred interest, and something novel in the WordPress space and that isn&#8217;t often happening..</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:16] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Thank you so much. I&#8217;m blushing. Yeah. truly amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And think that iPhone moment analogy, it&#8217;s excellent. And if you don&#8217;t mind, I&#8217;ll borrow that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> When the App Store came to the iPhone, that moment where the iPhone, which was fun and you could play songs with it, but you couldn&#8217;t do all the other things, like store your notes and sync them to the cloud and communicate with other people on chat apps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I imagine the developer community will jump on board and come up with a thousand different ways to build on top of Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:46] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> The analogy may be going further than it seems at first because every blueprint is like an app, right? You have WordPress as your vehicle for setting things up. And then you can create a slide building app, as I said earlier. But I had someone running Doom, like the video game in the Playground.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, you can build a course website with it, right? If you just pre-configure it in the correct way. We have a pull request previewer running in a couple of projects, right? You have a preview link on GitHub just posted automatically. You have plugin previewers. You have project demos. So many different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a blueprint that if you run it, it doesn&#8217;t actually create a Playground you can use, but it gives you a zip file. And in that zip there is a static version of what you started with, right? So now you can not only produce different WordPress setups and website setups, but also artifacts, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe another blueprint could, I don&#8217;t know, render a PDF, right? And that would be another version of your slides, to keep using this example.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can embed Playground. You can ship Playground on all the devices. So I&#8217;m imagining a world where you can build a WordPress plugin, click a button, and now you have a desktop app. You have a server app. You have a front end app. You have a progressive web app. You have a phone app. You have a tablet app. You have a terminal app, right from a single code base. We don&#8217;t have that button today, but I think it&#8217;s very possible to build one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It feels like the slogan is Playground, taking the friction out of using WordPress. Making that first step so much easier. No matter what your level of experience, if it&#8217;s the first time you&#8217;ve used WordPress, or if you want to do something more complicated. Just that frictionless step that you&#8217;ve created is, yeah, absolutely brilliant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So just before we go, I know that you mentioned the Slack channel where you are hanging out. Maybe you want to mention that again, just so it&#8217;s gone into people&#8217;s heads. But also if anybody is curious, maybe there&#8217;s other places where you can help with the Playground project, but also if you&#8217;re willing, are places where people can get in touch with you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:52] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> Absolutely. Twitter is one of them. I&#8217;m most attentive to GitHub, cause I&#8217;m spending a lot of time in the Playground repo and all the Playground related activity. So probably the easiest way to reach me is through issues and discussions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have something unrelated to the product, but just wanted to explore your use case, ping me on Twitter. There&#8217;s WordPress.org Slack, called meta-playground and that&#8217;s another good place. And also I&#8217;ll be on WordCamp EU in June. I&#8217;ll be having a talk on the main stage about WordPress Playground. So come, say hi. Watch the talk and let&#8217;s talk in person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice. Thank you very much. Adam Zelensky, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:34] <strong>Adam Zielinski:</strong> It&#8217;s been so lovely, naan. Thank you so much for having me.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://x.com/adamzielin\">Adam Zielinski</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Adam is the creator of WordPress Playground, a WordPress core committer, and Tech Editor release lead for WordPress 6.0. He works as a WordPress developer at Automattic and lives in Wrocław, Poland. In his spare time, he can be found bouldering, practising improv comedy, and playing badminton.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, we talk about Playground, a groundbreaking project that is redefined the way we interact with WordPress. Adam&#8217;s visionary approach to creating a seamless WordPress experience within a web browser has revolutionised how easy it is to access WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discuss Playground&#8217;s history, from the initial frustrations that sparked the idea, to the development process that brought it to life. We gain an understanding of the profound impact Playground is having on the WordPress landscape and its potential to shape the future of web development. It’s not often that the word profound is rightly used, but it feels appropriate here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We explore the enormous potential uses of Playground, from simplifying setup processes to enabling experimentation with plugins and themes. Adam&#8217;s vision for Playground as a catalyst for democratising website creation and enabling a culture of innovation within the WordPress community is something that’s still evolving, and it’s clear that the direction the project takes is still being figured out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This project really does change the way that WordPress can be used, and there’s so many exciting prospects for how it might shape the future of website design and development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in hearing about cutting-edge advancements reshaping the WordPress landscape, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">WordPress Playground</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/blueprints\">Blueprints GitHub repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2024/05/15/the-blueprint-gallery-share-your-wordpress-creations-with-playground/\">The Blueprint Gallery: Share your WordPress creations with Playground</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/wordpress-playground\">Playground GitHub repo</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://webassembly.org/\">Web Assembly</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://apps.apple.com/za/app/blocknotes/id6450189974\">Blocknotes</a> by Ella Van Durpe</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://x.com/adamzielin\">Adam on X / Twitter</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/adam-zieliski/\">Adam&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp Europe 2024</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>The playground team:</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dennis Snell:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/dmsnell/\">https://github.com/dmsnell/</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Brandon Payton:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/brandonpayton\">https://github.com/brandonpayton</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bero: <a href=\"https://github.com/bgrgicak\">https://github.com/bgrgicak</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 29 May 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"Do The Woo Community: All Things WordCamp Canada with Shanta Nathwani\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83911\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"https://dothewoo.io/all-things-wordcamp-canada-with-shanta-nathwani/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"Shanta shares the challenges, diverse initiatives, and cultural elements in preparing for WordCamp Canada.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 29 May 2024 12:27:22 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:128:\"Do The Woo Community: The WP Includes Gender Equality in WordPress Businesses Survey with Siobhan McKeown and Francesca Marano\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83888\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:125:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-wp-includes-gender-equality-in-wordpress-businesses-survey-with-siobhan-mckeown-and-francesca-marano/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:184:\"Rae Morey chats with Siobhan McKeown and Francesca Marano about the WP Includes\' initiative, the gender equality survey, upcoming presentation, personal experiences, and future impact.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 28 May 2024 08:13:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10:\"Matt: WP21\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=114533\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27:\"https://ma.tt/2024/05/wp21/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3309:\"<p>It seems like just yesterday WordPress was <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2016/05/wordpress-is-a-teenager/\">becoming a teenager</a>, and in a blink of the eye it&#8217;s now old enough to drink! 21 years since <a href=\"https://mikelittle.org/\">Mike</a> and I did the first release of WordPress, forking <a href=\"https://miche.lv/\">Michel&#8217;s</a> work on b2/cafélog.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s been many milestones and highlights along the way, and many more to come. I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about elements that made WordPress successful in its early years that we should keep in mind as we build this year and beyond. Here&#8217;s 11 opinions:</p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Simple things should be easy and intuitive, and complex things possible.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Blogging, commenting, and pingbacks need to be fun. Static websites are fine, but dynamic ones are better. Almost every site would be improved by having a great blog.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Wikis are amazing, and our documentation should be wiki-easy to edit.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Forums should be front and center in the community. <a href=\"https://bbpress.org/\">bbPress</a> and <a href=\"https://buddypress.org/\">BuddyPress</a> need some love.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Every plugin and theme should have all the infrastructure that we use to build WordPress itself—version control, bug trackers, forums, documentation, internationalization, chat rooms, P2, and easy pathways for contribution and community. We shouldn&#8217;t be uploading ZIPs in 2024!</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Theme previews should be great, and a wide collection of non-commercial themes with diverse aesthetics and functionality are crucial. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>We can&#8217;t over-index for guidelines and requirements. Better to have good marketplace dynamics and engineer automated feedback loops and transparency to users. Boundaries in functionality and design should be pushed. (But spam and spammy behavior deserves zero tolerance.)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Feedback loops are so important, and should scale with usage and the entire community rather than being reliant on gatekeepers.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core should be opinionated and quirky: Easter eggs, language with personality even if it&#8217;s difficult to translate, jazzy.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Everyone developing and making decisions for software needs to use it.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>It&#8217;s important that we all do support, go to meetups and events, anything we can to stay close to regular end-users of what we make.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<p>A bonus: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">Playground is going to change everything</a>. What would you add?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Fun fact: On May 27, 2003 I blogged &#8220;Working backwards, earlier tonight was great. Put&nbsp;WordPress&nbsp;out, which felt great.&#8221; as one sentence in a <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2003/05/locked-out/\">953-word entry written from the porch of my parent&#8217;s house</a> where I was accidentally locked out all night until my Dad left in the morning to go to work. Had no idea WordPress would be as big as it is. Earlier that night had set up WP for my friend Ramie Speight, and done some phone tech support for another friend Mike Tremoulet I had met through the local blogger meetup. My friends from high school all had their own domains with WP and that feedback loop was magical for shaping the software.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 23:50:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 80: Unlocking Your WordPress Potential with Learn WordPress Tools\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17278\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:108:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/05/episode-80-unlocking-your-wordpress-potential-with-learn-wordpress-tools/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14791:\"<p>Welcome to another episode of the WordPress Briefing! In this episode, your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, delves into the incredible resources available to help you broaden your WordPress expertise. Whether you&#8217;re just starting out or looking to deepen your skillset, these tools and tutorials offer something for everyone. Join us as we explore how Learn WordPress can be your guide on the journey to mastering WordPress, providing invaluable support and community connections along the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br />Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a><br />Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a><br />Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a><br />Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/\">WordPress Events </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/online-workshops/\">Online Workshops</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials/\">Tutorials</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson-plans/\">Lesson Plans</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/youth-teens-workshop-at-wordcamp-europe-2024/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp Europe Youth &amp; Teen Workshop Registration is Open</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/05/03/roadmap-to-6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Roadmap to WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/introducing-showcase-day/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordCamp US 2024 Showcase Day</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/04/08/share-your-feedback-with-meetup-com/\">Share Feedback with&nbsp;Meetup.com</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you&#8217;d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-17278\"></span>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:10] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here we go!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:40] <strong>Josepha:</strong> My friends, I don&#8217;t know about where you live, but where I live, it&#8217;s graduation season. Students all across the region are either gearing down for a little bit of a brain break or gearing up for the next big adventure in their lives. And as I watch these students discover the next phases in their lives, whether it looks good or bad, whether it feels fearful or faithful, I can&#8217;t help but think back to my last big change.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:01:07] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The one that brought me here to WordPress. I was working in insurance at the time and investing in a side hustle. And as is often the case with side hustles, discovered that knowing something about marketing myself was going to be key. Now, this next bit, I know that a lot of you will understand immediately. After that realization, I entered a period in my life where I was learning how to invest in my hoped-for side hustle so that I could realize my hoped-for dreams while also having to succeed at the job that I was using to pay my bills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By some singular coincidence, I wound up being introduced to the WordPress project, where I found not only the tools it turned out I needed but also people who were willing to help me learn them. For me, during that time, the cost to get access to both the tool and that support was basically zero. Like the whole cost to me was get those WordPress people together in a room to talk about WordPress for an hour.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:02:04] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that&#8217;s something that I always want to do anyway. I always want to get people together. And if what we&#8217;re talking about is WordPress, and that is what I need to learn about, then so be it. I realize that there is a little bit of privilege in that story and a whole lot of persistence. It&#8217;s not like I discovered it, and overnight, everything worked out well, and perfectly, and correctly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, all of the struggles to get what I got accomplished done aside. One of the things that I love the most about how the WordPress project has evolved over time is that we took that already low-cost, low-barrier concept and did everything in our power to take that low-cost, low-barrier and make it available to as many people as possible in as many points in their journey as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, if you&#8217;re at the start of your career or thinking about a bit of a career change, I have some resources for you. Like, stick around. But before we get to the resources, I want to make sure that you hear this. Learning WordPress things, whether that&#8217;s the software itself, or how to run a business supported by WordPress, or how to support other businesses by building them WordPress stuff, learning these skills now is an investment in who you want to be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It&#8217;s placing a bet that&#8217;s grounded in what you think you can bring to the world before anyone else might have figured out it&#8217;s what they need in their lives. And when you do that, in WordPress, you&#8217;re accessing and hopefully one day contributing to an equitable framework that doesn&#8217;t require you to understand it in order for you to benefit from it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can do hard things, and hopefully, these resources make those hard things a little easier. I&#8217;m going to take us through a whirlwind wayfinding list. I&#8217;ll generally be focused on time required and then kind of like necessary actions or context that would be useful for you to know. But remember that your mileage may vary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> If something sounds close but not perfect, I encourage you to give it a try anyway. The worst that happens is you try something different next time. Or, in the best-case scenario, you create something that other folks also have been missing. There was something that was close for them but not perfect either, and maybe you found the thing that&#8217;s perfect for them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, here is my whirlwind wayfinding list. Let&#8217;s go. Only have one hour a week and prefer a little company in your learning? Check out a meetup event near you. You can find those listed in your dashboard or on events.WordPress.org, but frequently, they happen during the week, after work hours, sometimes they happen on the weekend, they happen like in libraries or coffee shops.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, there are a lot of different ways that these events come together, and surely, there will be something that is the sort of low-key event that you want. But if not, you can always reach out to your local chapter and see how you can get involved with that, how you can help them create a new meetup event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The next option, if you only have an hour a week, but you actually don&#8217;t want company but still use some external support, I would check out one of our online workshops. There are cohorts for each workshop, and they&#8217;re run by facilitators so that you can learn and socialize from the comfort and safety of your own space, or if you really are super strapped for time, that can help with like not having to commute anywhere. Next up on our list, feel like you could average an hour a week, but honestly, would prefer it to be in one big chunk? Check out a WordCamp near you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are a little bit like the meetups but quite a bit bigger and a lot more content, a lot more learning available, and gets you into a different kind of group of people in your local area. Those happen about once a year per city or region, but if there&#8217;s not one within a comfortable traveling distance for you, it might be a good chance for you to do a mini business trip, or if you&#8217;re doing it as current career development, see if your boss, or your boss self, if you are your own boss, has a continuing education budget available for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:08] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Have 30 minutes or so a week and don&#8217;t need any external motivation? On the one hand, I am a little jealous. I sometimes need my own external motivation. But, if that&#8217;s not you, if you can just self-drive forever, then courses over on learn.WordPress.org are just about your speed. We even have a series of learning pathways in development that curate all the courses you need to achieve particular milestones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can also help to create those. If you have been all the way through your learning journey and you&#8217;re, like, the most WordPressy WordPresser we&#8217;ve ever seen, and you just want to make sure that other people have the same opportunities you&#8217;ve had, that&#8217;s an excellent opportunity to show up and make sure that the knowledge is still available, still free, still can be accessed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And finally, if you have unpredictable time and also still comfortable being completely self-driven, We have in the WordPress ecosystem countless videos, blogs, tutorials, and a ton of content creators that are behind them that specialize in teaching WordPress basics but also leveling up existing knowledge. And if your type of existing knowledge is in the, like, gathering the network to succeed, sort of area. We even have podcasts and blogs that are dedicated to the more businessy side of WordPress, how to make this function in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:32] <strong>Josepha:</strong> As always, I&#8217;ll have links for everything in the show notes—just myriad links because this isn&#8217;t even all that we need to share with you today. And I&#8217;m going to say this last thing one more time because I really, really mean it like a whole, whole lot. I know it&#8217;s hard, bordering on impossible sometimes, to carve out time to learn new things. But when you&#8217;re ready to invest in yourself, I&#8217;m pretty sure that these resources will be here to support your hoped-for dreams.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:58] (Music interlude)&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:05] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that brings us now to our small list of big things. First up is speaking of learning, speaking of investing in your future. WordCamp Europe has a youth and teen workshop going on. The registration for that is still open. It is open for students aged 10 to 16. It&#8217;s gonna be a hands-on workshop. They&#8217;ll get to build their own website with WordPress and then explore some cutting-edge technology from VR to AI and learn essential internet safety skills. We&#8217;re going to be running that on June 13th. It will be in both English and Italian. I will leave a link to the registration in the show notes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the next thing on our list is pretty much related. It&#8217;s kind of related. At WordCamp US this year, we have a Showcase Day. Now, this is new to WordCamp US, and it&#8217;s all about pushing the boundaries of what WordPress can do. It will feature presentations, demos, and technical workshops for all kinds of projects, from high-profile, large-scale builds with innovative integrations to more niche creative implementations that still have a big impact. Submissions are now open for it. If you are working on something that is really cool and uses WordPress and want to show it off to the WordPress community, wander over there, submit your project; let&#8217;s take a look at it and see if we can get it into that showcase lineup, but if you are looking for inspiration about what WordPress can do, if you&#8217;re still figuring out how this can work the best for you, that&#8217;s going to be a great opportunity to look at some unusual implementations so that you can get an idea for how big this thing can get.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:43] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And just some tactical things. The next two things on my small of big things are two tactical items. One is that WordPress 6.6 is on the move; as always, we have Beta 1 scheduled pretty soon here. So, dig into our priority features. I will leave a link to the roadmap for WordPress 6.6. We&#8217;re targeting, if I recall correctly, middle of July for that release. And so it&#8217;s coming up faster than you think. And we would absolutely love for you to come in, test the Beta, tell us what&#8217;s broken so that we can fix it before it gets out. We can&#8217;t fix the things if you don&#8217;t tell us they&#8217;re broken. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:17] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing on our small list of big things is that speaking of not being able to fix things that we don&#8217;t know are broken. So, we use meetup.com to manage all of our meetup series. Well, most of our meetup series anyway, but they are planning to invest in some product improvements, and they have asked for feedback from the WordPress community. Historically, we are one of the largest, most active communities on their platform. And so, if you could fill out the feedback form, if you&#8217;ve been to a meetup, or if you tried to find a meetup using meetup.com and did not succeed, that&#8217;s probably also relevant information. I&#8217;ll have a link to that here as well. It will go directly to their product team. And hopefully we&#8217;ll see some product improvements for the WordPress community in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:01] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us, follow me on your favorite podcast app, or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode, and if you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks again, and I&#8217;ll see you in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:29] (Music outro)&nbsp;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: The Next Gen in WordPress with Allison Dye and Sophia DeRosia\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83856\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-next-gen-in-wordpress-with-allison-dye-and-sophia-derosia/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:177:\"The episode features our new hosts Sophia and Allison discussing their early exposure to WordPress, personal experiences, skill development, community impact, and future topics.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 27 May 2024 08:55:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"HeroPress: HeroPress in Spain, Accessibility and Inclusivity at WordCamp Europe\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:29:\"https://heropress.com/?p=6827\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:201:\"https://heropress.com/heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7063:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"768\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/4436637dfd73554f4.37436592-1024x768.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"A pale fish with large eyes and rounded fins swimming in clear blue water with a few tiny bubbles visible around it.\" /><div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_da78c2-d2\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_e5d91a-c4 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_5128b0-a5 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_f51751-1b wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">HeroPress At WordCamp Europe 2024</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/accessibility-and-inclusivity/\"><img width=\"1024\" height=\"296\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/wceu_updates-1024x296.jpg\" alt=\"WCEU Latest Updates\" class=\"wp-image-6680\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_acae33-d3 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">Accessibility and Inclusivity</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>The organizing team at WCEU this year have made a great effort to make the event inclusive and accessible. <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/accessibility-and-inclusivity/\">They&#8217;ve created a page</a> which details information about the venue, transportation, food, allergies, etc. for a very wide range of people, from attendees who are deaf, hard-of-hearing or sound sensitive, attendees who are blind, partially-sighted, photo or light sensitive, and attendees with autism, anxiety or neurodivergence. All of this in addition to solutions for people who move around differently.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Who are we going to see at WCEU? Stop by the <a href=\"https://heropress.com/slack/\">HeroPress Slack</a> and let is know, I&#8217;d love to touch base with you!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_dc153e-a2\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_ab1532-a3 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_a7d06e-af inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_823314-e0 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/\">HeroPress.com</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/from-blogging-to-wordpress-communities-a-bolivian-tale/\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\">Discover Where You Belong</a></a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image is-style-default\">\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\"><img width=\"287\" height=\"300\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/angela_jin-287x300.jpg\" alt=\"Angela Jin\" class=\"wp-image-3468\" /></a></div>\n\n\n<p>Angela Jin wandered the world looking for her place in it until she found WordPress. It allowed her to move to Spain and live the life she wanted.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>I saw WordPress as a way for anyone to have a voice online, and as a result, I was also drawn to the idea of creating these tools that non-developers, like myself, could use in an increasingly online world.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Angela&#8217;s essay is <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/discover-where-you-belong/\">available</a> on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress.com</a>.</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-6827_3fd7d6-9d\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id6827_0c138d-76 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column6827_2101a6-71 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading6827_c64b75-39 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\">WP Podcasts</a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\"><img src=\"https://heropressnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/pocket_casts_single_315.png\" alt=\"Pocket Casts image\" class=\"wp-image-4316\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>There were <em>Twenty-four</em> WordPress podcast episodes released this week! Noy only that, we&#8217;ve passed 13,000 episodes!</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://elarroyo.dev/episodio-61-la-verdad-que-te-estan-ocultando-sobre-el-hosting/#new_tab\">Episodio 61 – La verdad que te están ocultando sobre el hosting</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/el-arroyo-dev/\">El Arroyo Dev</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://underrepresented-in-tech-1.castos.com/episodes/diversity-isnt-for-the-naked-eye#new_tab\">Diversity Isn’t for the Naked Eye</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/underrepresented-in-tech/\">Underrepresented in Tech</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://remkusdevries.com/podcast/from-failed-blogs-to-head-of-content-this-is-emma-youngs-journey/#new_tab\">From Failed Blogs to Head of Content. This is Emma Young’s Journey</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/within-wordpress/\">Within WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-100-nasa-wordpress-block-editor/#new_tab\">Gutenberg Changelog #100 – NASA’s New Website – the Switch to WordPress and Block Editor</a> from <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog/\">Gutenberg Changelog</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>There are new episodes every single day, so be sure to stop by <a href=\"https://wppodcasts.com\">WPPodcasts.com</a> and search for things that interest you!</p>\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p>The banner at the top of this post is a <a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/4436637dfd/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/author/ajithrn/\">Ajith R N</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s it for this week! If you&#8217;d like to get this post in your email every week, <a href=\"https://heropressnetwork.com/newsletter\">make sure you sign up</a>!</p>\n<p>The post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/heropress-in-spain-accessibility-and-inclusivity-at-wordcamp-europe/\">HeroPress in Spain, Accessibility and Inclusivity at WordCamp Europe</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 24 May 2024 17:03:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: Building Community and Driving Innovation with Mohammed Moeez\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=83715\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/building-community-and-driving-innovation-with-mohammed-moeez/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:133:\"Moeez from Cloudways shares insights on community engagement, product development, and navigating challenges in the hosting industry.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 24 May 2024 08:31:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"WPTavern: #121 – Alexander Gilmanov on Transitioning From Developer to Entrepreneur. Part 2.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=155933\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/121-alexander-gilmanov-on-transitioning-from-developer-to-entrepreneur-part-2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50984:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, one person&#8217;s story of the struggles of transitioning from a freelancer into an agency manager, but this is part two. If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the</p>\n\n\n\n<p>podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Alexander Gilmanov. Alex comes to us today from Belgrade, Serbia. He&#8217;s a full stack developer with a rich heritage of freelance and agency work. His company officially launched in 2014, and they&#8217;ve continued to work with clients as well as creating a range of WordPress plugins and their own SaaS apps, mainly in the online booking space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Slightly usually for this podcast, I decided to break the content up into two parts. You can hear the first episode, from last week, by going to wptavern.com and searching for episode 120.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander brings a wealth of experience from his journey within the WordPress ecosystem. And this podcast is all about his transitioning from being a freelancer towards a more managerial role, now overseeing a team of 43 employees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Alexander gets into the intricacies of team management, emphasizing the effective use of tools like Google Suite, Slack, Jira, Notion, Confluence, and GitLab.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We begin with Alexander reflecting upon his evolving role, from an individual contributor, to a leader. Responsible for a midsize team. He talks about the lessons learned along the way, particularly trying to steer clear of negative motivation tactics. He now advocates for positive reinforcement, and fostering a culture of trust and calm, where mistakes are viewed as opportunities for growth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then chat about the complexities of balancing automated and human support, and Alexander offers his perspective on managing support requests effectively whilst maintaining high customer satisfaction.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also explains about the structure of his team, telling us about the benefits of smaller, independent teams, and the need for coordination across departments, such as product development, marketing, and support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end, we talk about the WordPress community and Alexander contrast this with other industries, sharing insights from events and conferences that have shaped his approach to team management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He mentions learning from established companies like Visual Composer or WP Bakery, noting the openness and knowledge sharing that define the WordPress ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Finally Alexander underscores the importance of building the right team. He discusses the need to recognize when team members are not a good fit, and now it&#8217;s not always realistic to expect every employee to be the perfect fit for his way of doing things. Seeking the right people and learning continuously forms a key part of his managerial philosophy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in team management and the dynamics of the WordPress community, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A quick note before we begin, Alexander&#8217;s audio was not great at the start, but I&#8217;ve done my best to clean it up, and it is more than listenable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, without further delay I bring you Alexander Gilmanov.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast once again by Alexander Gilmanov. Hello. How are you doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:43] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Hi. I&#8217;m doing good. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, really great. So, just to give you some context, dear listener, if you haven&#8217;t listened to the previous episode of this podcast, if you&#8217;ve missed a week, then it&#8217;s probably a good idea to go back because this is part two, kind of unexpectedly actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>When Alexander and I began our conversation for the podcast, just the intention was to get it all done in one hit. And then the conversation got away from us. I was really interested in it, and so we kept talking. And about halfway through what we intended to cover, I said, let&#8217;s do it as a two-parter. So that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re at, at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, if you were to replay last week&#8217;s episode, Alexander will be able to introduce himself. So we won&#8217;t go through that whole process again. But what you&#8217;ll hear there is Alexander&#8217;s journey from being a freelancer, to a more managerial role, and the different things that he went through in his professional journey, in order to get where he is today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it was the story of his work life, you could encapsulate it as. And the bit that we never got to was all of the bits and pieces that make up the work life. How to do things, and the decisions that Alexander has made over the years, mistakes that have been made, and things that have been improved and, what have you. So that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re going to go for the next little episode. Let&#8217;s see where this goes to. But firstly, thank you for joining me again. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:05] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, no, you&#8217;re very welcome. So we&#8217;ve got you at the point where you are now a project manager. Your career has ended up with a 43, I think you said, person company. It&#8217;s a lot of responsibility, and decisions will have been made on that journey. Things will have been done badly, some things will have been done brilliantly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s just go through the bits and the pieces that you think make you good at your job. Now, I&#8217;m not suggesting that you believe yourself to be brilliant at your job or anything, no big headedness here. But what are some of the kernels, the bits of wisdom that you could give us about managing a company, a web agency, with 43 people? And we can go in any direction you like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:46] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> While we were phrasing the question, you already mentioned one of the things that was on my mind because, exactly, many things are done, were done maybe wisely. Some things were mistakes, and I can&#8217;t consider myself to be a perfect project manager, or founder, or CEO. And I think this is one of the key things, like never to go to any extreme about thinking I&#8217;m doing things perfectly, and this is the only way to do it, and not to go to other extreme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some people have this tendency of blaming themselves for every mistake, seeing it as failure, complete failure, something that cannot be redone. Almost never in business life it happens like that. But the attitude about the problem sometimes can create bigger problem than the problem itself. So that&#8217;s one thing that came to my mind as you were speaking. Try to stay calm about things, about failures, about success. Everything is learning. Everything will pass.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you have moments where you didn&#8217;t obey that little golden rule though? Do you have moments where the anxiety, the stress, I don&#8217;t know, the financial consequences of decisions you made, all felt like it was getting a bit too much? I think it&#8217;s easy to tell yourself after the fact, be kind to yourself, but reality is, when the clients are not happy, when the projects are not coming to fruition in a timely way, I think it&#8217;s all too easy to get into blaming, and anger, and all of those kind of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:10] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes. I think one of my early mistakes, not failure like mistakes, but one of the wrong way of approaching things was using anxiety and fear as a motivator. Because for the first year or two, as I think I mentioned last time, we were depending on each and every project, each client. It created a lot of tension.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I didn&#8217;t like it, but when you feel constant stress, stress also gives you some adrenaline, some power, and then you can go for hours and hours. Long term, stress, and fear, and anxiety is a bad motivator, because you don&#8217;t feel good about those projects. You don&#8217;t create positive energy in the company, you exhaust yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is something I realised maybe after two years of running the company, and I started restructuring my way of thinking about it. And this is something I would advise entrepreneurs, young founders, and young managers to avoid, because many people tend to do that. They start creating, they start exaggerating potential scenarios, potential problems that might happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What happens if this project fails? What happens if this client cancels? We are all doomed then. And let me stay until 2:00 AM today, and do everything possible. Okay, this gives you like short term boost, and short term motivation and fuel, but long term it&#8217;s going to exhaust you, and people around you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It can be very easy though to fall into that trap, can&#8217;t it? Because I think in some situations, fear, anxiety, and even anger, they are so close at hand. You know, they&#8217;re the natural thing that comes out in certain scenarios, especially fear. And to be calm, and to be equanimous, and to have that capability to take a step back and see that probably the doom scenario is not necessarily the scenario that&#8217;s going to come out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I guess if you, as the leader of the company, are exemplifying what the company stands for, and the way to behave in the company, if that&#8217;s the way that you are handling yourself, then in a way you are giving permission to everybody lower down to start to freak out, and believe that everything&#8217;s going wrong, and become angry and what have you. So changing that behavior to be more calm, there&#8217;ll be a knock on effect with your employees, and probably a lot calmer, and a lot more productive as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:20] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes, exactly. Allowing yourself to make mistakes is, I think, crucial. Being too relaxed about this is also important, but if you are setting expectations for your team, and you are too upset about every single mistake, it&#8217;s going to create a lot of stress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I did this mistake, as I said. In the early days, I was looking at all the successful examples, successful entrepreneurs, companies that have success stories because all you see online are success stories, and you think they have everything figured out. And then you look at your own company and you see all those things that other people don&#8217;t see from the inside, all the problems, maybe things not implemented to 100%, things you know can be done better. And you start blaming yourself and people around you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For the first years, I also believed in negative motivation too much. I was trying to establish some sort of penalties if something isn&#8217;t delivered on time, try to scare people if we are not going to deliver the project by day. I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen with the company, something like that. And this is really a wrong thing, I think now, as of today, to do for a leader, because you&#8217;re not creating trust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People maybe will, as also short term, do more. Maybe they will become more motivated, deliver more, because they&#8217;re at fear for their positions. Long term, especially if you&#8217;re building products of your own, like deadlines, penalties, trying to scare people, creating anxiety, it&#8217;s poison long term. You&#8217;re not going to get a team you can trust, team to trust you. You&#8217;re not creating the ownership feel you want from your key employees.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, and presumably you are coming to work not feeling great about anything as well. You are at the top of the tree there, and it all looks bad all the way from top to bottom. That&#8217;s really interesting though. I&#8217;m no psychologist, I don&#8217;t really know how the brain reacts to fear, as opposed to positivity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my intuition is that, if you are told that you are doing a good job more frequently than you are told that your work is not up to scratch, and there&#8217;s this deadline coming, and there&#8217;s these penalties you&#8217;re about to fall into the trap of receiving, my guess is that you&#8217;re just going to enjoy that work experience, and be much more motivated to make the job successful, if you are constantly being praised and rewarded.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:39] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes, you need the right people. Some people that would be a brilliant employee, for some other company it will not be perfect match for your team, for your project, for the combination that you&#8217;re building.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes, I wanted to say it&#8217;s a good skill you need to learn to identify those people. One of the early mistakes I did, I tried to change people. I tried to either adjust the way we do things as a company to certain people, or try to adjust certain people, and get into something which is really not job of a manager. Change the habits, change the mindset, change the values of a person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes when there is no match, the best solution for everyone to part ways and to look for a different person. Also, it&#8217;s a common mistake, and I&#8217;m also guilty of doing it, is to punish the members that do everything, and punish the rights team members for something the team members haven&#8217;t done right. By introducing penalties, by scaring the team in group emails, or something like that, but I don&#8217;t do anymore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s good to hear. One of the things that you mentioned there was how easy it is to assume that everybody&#8217;s getting everything right. To look online, and with the best will in the world, more or less everybody paints best picture of themselves online. Not many people are going to go out there and share all of the things that are going wrong in their business or their life. So you do have this very skewed impression.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, if you head onto YouTube and look at management videos, how to manage a web design agency. There&#8217;ll be loads of different ideas, and maybe some of them are just not going to fit with your way of doing things. And so that leads me to this next thought, which is, basically, where did you learn to make these changes in the way that you manage things?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Was it an incremental thing? Did you have some sort of guru, or course, or tutor that you went to? Or was it merely a case of, over the years, making mistakes and looking and thinking, okay, I need to change that one little thing, and then another few months goes by and, okay, I need to change that one little thing? Where did you get your inspirations from?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:38] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s an incremental thing, and it&#8217;s an ongoing process. In the early days of transitioning to a manager, I really almost physically felt this hunger for knowledge and mentorship. And I used each and every opportunity I could. I was writing emails, and as we are in the WordPress ecosystem, I can even maybe mention a couple of companies that were really, really helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, Visual Composer, WP Bakery, they were my early role model. They were very successful in the marketplaces where we also started selling our plugins. And I was looking up to them. I got the inspiration from their websites, from their social media. And one day I took the courage and wrote them a message through a contact form telling them, I really admire what you do, and I would love to share experiences.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I received an answer from their CEO the next day. And he was very kind, and he answered many questions. And then in one of the WordCamps a couple of years after, I saw that they&#8217;re attending it. And, again, I wrote them a message and we got to know each other, and they were all very open about how they do things, what they do right, what they did wrong. And this was something that, it was just one acquaintance, and just one step I took without any hope that someone will answer, which answered a lot of things that on my mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some things were just, you need proof that you&#8217;re not doing something wrong. Sometimes you will try doing, let&#8217;s say Google ads or Facebook ads, and they don&#8217;t produce any results, and you think, maybe I&#8217;m just no good at it, maybe others have everything figured out. But then you talk to other, two, three people in the industry, and you see that it&#8217;s actually a common thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also Sujay from Brainstorm Force, Astra, I keep mentioning him. Getting to know him was a very insightful experience. He would share many of the things that they have done, that they changed in their journey. Some of the findings that they had, for example, switching from selling plugins on the marketplace, towards selling plugins directly on the website. It was something that was on my mind for years. I thought we just can&#8217;t afford it. We don&#8217;t have the traffic, we don&#8217;t have the demand generation on our end, and we depend so hugely on this marketplace.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he shared, I think even the revenue numbers, things other people wouldn&#8217;t share in different industries. He showed me the, you will drop for certain percentage when you move away from the marketplace, but then it&#8217;ll give you a push to build your own customer base, and you can work with them better, you can nurture this better. Eventually we&#8217;ll recover, and long-term effect, compound effect, will be much better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Such interactions were maybe the mentoring sessions. I didn&#8217;t have a mentor I could talk to. But also, I tried to use every opportunity I could. I was attending events, I was attending talks, conferences. Sometimes it was just basic stuff like how to do accounting, how to fire people, how to hire people. And from every conferences, webinar, education piece, I took away something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes it wasn&#8217;t much, the event itself, but I would meet a person that is maybe in a different industry, but at a similar role. And I would ask them like, we are really struggling with managing all this different stuff in the office, bulbs keep going out, and we need paper towels and, I don&#8217;t know, toilet paper, things like that. And we already have 15 people, but still there is not enough time to hire full-time office manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And at the same time, I feel it&#8217;s not wise for me to keep doing all this as a CEO and founder. I&#8217;m wasting time for trivial things. They would just give me advice how they maybe hired someone who is combining office management and HR, or accounting. I never thought about it this way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> One of the things which I keep coming back to, you may have strong intuitions about this, you may agree, you may disagree, I don&#8217;t know. I do think that being a part of an open source project is different in some way. I don&#8217;t know what that is, I can&#8217;t put my finger on it. But the willingness to communicate with, in some cases, direct competitors is really quite startling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, you go to a major WordCamp, and there will be all these companies who are directly competing against each other. Let&#8217;s take hosting, for example, that would be a good example. They&#8217;re all there, and obviously they&#8217;re pitching their product, and they&#8217;ve got their booth, or what have you. But when it&#8217;s all over, and the evening rolls around, they&#8217;re all having a bit of a chat and sharing information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There may be some things which are confidential, but I do think that making use of those connections at those kind of events is really useful. And that was very surprising to me when I first turned up to a WordPress event, that all of these competitors would be quite willing to talk through their problems. And you may be not competing with the companies that you&#8217;ve mentioned, I&#8217;m not entirely sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But still very nice of those people, to take time out of their schedule to give you a bit of a leg up, and some tutoring, and some mentoring. And I&#8217;m not really sure that that would happen in every kind of industry. Like I said, I don&#8217;t know why that is, but I have an intuition that that&#8217;s a thing. So I don&#8217;t know if you want to comment on that, but I&#8217;m just offering it up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:45] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> I fully agree. It&#8217;s very different in WordPress. I had some experience with the agency work, and with some industries. We had contact with as an agency, and also I attended lots of SaaS conferences. The overall atmosphere is very different. And competitors, they would be, of course, polite and professional towards each other. Last WordCamp in Taipei, there was a picture, like BB Builder, Divi and Elementor walk into a bar, and three guys sharing a beer, it might be even forbidden by corporate policy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think it would. I really think it would, and so that is curious. The piece of the jigsaw that I can&#8217;t quite understand, and I think it&#8217;s what makes open source such an interesting and friendly environment. Again, dear listener, if you&#8217;re listening to this and you haven&#8217;t been to one of these events before, I think it&#8217;s worth a shot. You know, if there&#8217;s parts of your business that you are not that sure about, obviously you could hop in a contact form and hope like you did, that you would get a reply.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But turning up to some of these events, and seeing if anybody in the room has had the same experience, or is trying to figure out the same thing that you are, is really, really valuable. We call it the hallway track, and it&#8217;s the bit where everybody just hangs out outside of the presentations, and the bits and the pieces that have been organised.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, let&#8217;s move on to some of the things that you&#8217;ve shared. Now, I said in the last episode that Alexander had created this Google Doc, not necessarily for me, but he shared it with me, and it was really a dumping ground, I think you&#8217;d explained, you were just letting your thoughts out into text. And I&#8217;m going to sort of latch onto a few bits and pieces.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So this is some of the process stuff, some of the things that you&#8217;ve figured make your business run more smoothly. And one of the things which is right at the top, and I think you mentioned this quite a few times, making sure that your projects and your products are always with the target audience in mind.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, I know that&#8217;s easy to say, right? Okay, always think about the audience, we must think about the audience. That&#8217;s obvious, right? Tell me about that. Why have you put that as right at the top, and you keep repeating it? What&#8217;s going on there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:46] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s sort of a mantra, I think every product builder needs to return to. Everybody knows that. I think every product company would have, like we are not building it for beautiful UX. We are not building it for ourselves, we are building it for the end customer. And the end customer, as they say, they don&#8217;t want to buy a drill, they want to put a picture on their wall, or they want holes in their walls.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And because you get carried away by the process, and it&#8217;s never ending. I know that I&#8217;m sharing this with you like I&#8217;m a guru of that, but tomorrow I may get driven away by working with a designer again. So if a large percentage of your customers is telling you that your product is doing something wrong, and you know that it doesn&#8217;t, they&#8217;re right because you&#8217;re building it for them. And it&#8217;s so easy, and for different segments it&#8217;s so easy to just right it off, especially for support or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know that every day you&#8217;re going to receive a hundred of new requests, you feel them as never ending. Support agents, it&#8217;s a very tough part of our job, and it&#8217;s very easy for them to get into that mindset. Those guys keep annoying me, they keep writing these repeating stupid questions. You start seeing them in your head as something, as a crowd of people, and they keep asking the same question, you think they&#8217;re all somehow connected. And you need to repeatedly wake yourself up because you act as a company, work for those people, you exist because of those people, and you need to make them happy</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You know, it&#8217;s really interesting because, I&#8217;m sure you have done the same thing that I&#8217;m about to describe, that you have used some service, product, whatever it may be, and you&#8217;ve written in with a suggestion or support, and you get something which feels angry back. It&#8217;s jarring, isn&#8217;t it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very quickly, you have a very negative impression of the company. And all it took was for one employee, who maybe is a bit fed up with their job, or was having a bad day, or whatever that might be, and you are skewed. And I suppose, in a sense, the best company on earth would be a company where you could sell the product and have no users. Nobody would write in. Nobody would need any support. Every feature that you shipped would be welcomed, and everything that you didn&#8217;t ship, nobody needed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that&#8217;s just not how it is. You have users, and unless you&#8217;re actually making them the core then, what&#8217;s the point? But how do you make sure that you are servicing your users? Is it talking to people at events, people that are using your product? Is it just inspecting the support tickets periodically? What&#8217;s the process, which means that you are fairly confident that you are listening to your user base?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:28] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> It&#8217;s one thing where I want to highlight, you never can do it 100% perfect, you just said yourself. And in this part, I don&#8217;t want to sound like we have it all figured out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> No, I understand, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:39] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> We are constantly working on improving it. We know how we would do this in the ideal scenario, but the resources aren&#8217;t there yet. We would love to have 24/7 support. We would love to have three tiers of support. We love to have a real time sync between all the departments. And we are going towards this ideal solution but, you know, we also have restrictions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>43 people company is a lot of people, but still not enough for everything to be ideal. And getting back to the question, we try our best to do all of this. We have open channels for people to suggest features, and vote for features. But we also try to be honest with them that, this is not how we determine the roadmap, how we define the roadmap.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes people get angry. They say, this feature has 800 votes, and it&#8217;s still not in the process of development, it doesn&#8217;t look like rocket science to build. For example, hotel booking, into the booking plugin that we have. From the outside it doesn&#8217;t, but from the inside, when you have all these other things going on, it&#8217;s tough to even give estimate on when we start working on this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yes, we have this channel. We are trying to build communities. This is something that we don&#8217;t do good enough, and I think we should do a much better job at it. Communities in Facebook, we launched a Discord channel where people can communicate and help each other, even if our support manager is not there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe they already had question about how to configure something, and then some other user can help. And I&#8217;m also in this community, and from time to time I would monitor and see like what are the common frustrations. And I also try to appear at least once per month in this feature vault system, and monitor what&#8217;s most requested, what are the frustrations, because unfortunately frustrations will happen. You can&#8217;t keep everybody happy, even though we want to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you encourage your staff to use your product? So let&#8217;s take the example of the booking system, Amelia. Now, I&#8217;m guessing that a proportion of your staff will have no need to use a booking plugin, because they&#8217;ve already got a job, and they&#8217;re not booking out their time, or whatever it may be that that plugin most frequently gets used for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I guess, unless you know the ins and outs of that plugin, and the pain points that a real user experiences, you don&#8217;t really understand. You haven&#8217;t got under the skin of what that thing is, and it&#8217;s too easy to just sit there and be the developer. I&#8217;m working on the technology, I&#8217;m working on the code to make it work, look it works. Yeah, but nobody needs that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you encourage your staff to use it and implement And I know that you&#8217;ve got a variety of different booking solutions, as well as a data tables management suite. We&#8217;ll put the links in the show notes. So yeah, do you get your staff to use what you produce?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:20] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yes we do. As you said, not all of them need booking solutions. But for example, myself, I have a booking page, where people can book a call with me when needed. By configuring it, found a couple of bugs, and issues, and couple of inconsistencies while developing something, it seemed like a logical scenario, but when I tried to configure it and use it for myself, I saw that, okay, it doesn&#8217;t quite follow the thought process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also what we do is, all the managerial roles, project managers, team managers, team lead of the project managers, and myself, whenever we receive, and because there are so many channels, every now and then certain support request or comment would reach us, somewhere through the contact form, or in a comment somewhere in the social media or in private messages.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Customer would reach out to us with a support request, or some comment, or some concern. If we have the time, we would try first to answer, and take care of these customers ourselves, because then it helps for example, to keep the hand on the pulse, as we say it. Not necessarily this one customer would have the most typical problem, it helps me to remember what I just said a couple of minutes ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are building this for the customers. They&#8217;re not here because of us. We are here because of them, and this is what we do. And then it helps us to see the real use case scenarios, scenarios we would never even think about. Language schools, yoga studios. Many, many different use cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Very logical sometimes for them to request a feature we don&#8217;t have, and we would never even think about such a feature, because we had a totally different use case in mind when we were building something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, a room full of 43 developers and associated managers, you&#8217;re not going to have all the intuitions, are you? There&#8217;s bound to be somebody that comes very left field, and suggests something which, you never know as well, do you? It may be that somebody in a conversation in a Facebook group just says something, and that just launches your business off in a completely different direction, and you can pivot. So I think you&#8217;ve got to be open to those things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Can I just ask, I don&#8217;t want to get into this particularly, but you were talking about support there, and some of the mechanisms that you&#8217;ve got for support. So just very, very briefly, what do you think about the sort of rising trend to automate support?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>More and more I see that, if I go to a website, for a while it was Intercom, that was a new thing. There was that little bubble in the bottom corner and you could type something in, and you would either get a reply over email or you&#8217;d get somebody in real time writing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we see this trend towards AI, where the AI tries to be the go-between. I get the feeling that it&#8217;s to protect the company from the support burden. Often it&#8217;s just to insulate, can we get the answer to them before we need a human involved? But I also have this notion that, for most people they find it quite frustrating. So it&#8217;s entirely up to you if you want to answer that or not, but I just thought that was curious.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:10] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yeah, it can be frustrating. And I think the most important part is to always keep the option open to, forward it to a real person. Of course, yeah, that&#8217;s the conflict of the paradox, whatever you want to put it. You don&#8217;t want to invest too much in tier one support because, indeed, a lot of people don&#8217;t want to browse through the data and the knowledge base that is already there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of frequently asked questions already have a very detailed answer somewhere online, but they don&#8217;t want to dig through this, even if it&#8217;s two clicks. It&#8217;s always easier for them to ask a question. And for this, AI can be pretty good. And it can be really frustrating. But what I would mention there is that, sometimes a real human can be even more frustrating, because sometimes they can get more, I don&#8217;t want to say any bad words, but they can give you answers that are even more off than AI would give you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And with some very large corporations, I don&#8217;t want to call the names but, for example, for configuring some pay per click ads, I wanted specific support. And first, I had to wait to be switched from an AI that doesn&#8217;t know anything to a real person. And then this person had also completely no idea. They tried to send me the same copy paste template replies, and I wasted an hour of my time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m not sure. We&#8217;ll have to keep an eye on this debate, but it does seem like that kind of support system is going to the way that things are done in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay, so we talked about the relationship between your company and the users. Let&#8217;s just turn for the next 10 minutes or so to the sort of structure that you&#8217;ve got within your own company, and how you manage that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We don&#8217;t need to go through the evolution of it, but right now you&#8217;ve got 43 people. Just tell us what your company looks like, in terms of how you&#8217;ve got that cake layered from top right to bottom. Where have you got to? By employee number 43, what does it look like, and how do you have people, working underneath other people? What does it all look like?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:04] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> An ongoing process. Not to take too much time, I will just share my current take on high level, how we try to structure things. First of all, we try to keep teams at five to seven people maximum, for them to be able to sync with each other. And this is the number, I think everything higher than five is hard for a manager to follow. For one person to know what each and every one team member are doing, if there is 10 people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the moment we have product teams and we try to structure those as almost mini businesses, within our overall business. For example, a developer that works on wpDataTables wouldn&#8217;t have tasks to deliver on some other products, and the project manager in this team would also only focus on their own product development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What we still share, to a certain extent, is the support or customer happiness team is shared between three different products, mostly for redundancy when someone is away, or there are so many tickets that the assigned person can&#8217;t cover all of them. We need to have redundancies so all the support agents are onboarded to all the products. As we evolve, we want to also have the support team within the product team, so that it would be more or less independent from each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we also share the marketing team. Also not an ideal setup. This is something which is optimal for now, given the resources. I think that it&#8217;s perfect if the marketing is also focused on one product only. This is something that is still luxury as of now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are also sharing the marketing team at the moment. It&#8217;s not an ideal setup. As we go ahead, we would also love to divide the marketing team and merge the different marketing teams with the corresponding product teams, because this is actually the best way to do this. When every person focuses on one role, on one product, then you get the best results.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But this is a luxury you only get with scaling. Yeah, so this is probably the principle we are following now. One manager for five to seven people max. More independence within teams. See what&#8217;s the level of decision making independence we can give them. And then some managers that would be responsible for syncing different teams, because customer support, customer happiness has the inputs that the product development needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also, the product development needs to sync with the marketing to market the features, and to the support, so that support would know what are all the new features that we are releasing in the new versions. Yes, and we are sharing naturally the admin part of things like office management, HR, those things. But this is, I think, natural for any company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if I&#8217;ve understood it correctly, you&#8217;ve got teams of five to seven developers. That then has a manager.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:53] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Five to seven people. This would also include designers, developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:57] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right, so each of those has a manager, so you&#8217;ve got a bunch of those teams, and then those managers then report to, what, another manager, slightly higher up. And then, do those managers then report to you? And then separately you&#8217;ve got the marketing and the support teams, who have to communicate with all of those teams, so that they&#8217;re aware of what the product actually is on a day-to-day basis, okay. For 43 people, you&#8217;re happy with the way that&#8217;s going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let&#8217;s just, very quickly, before we run out of time, because we&#8217;re probably approaching the time that we&#8217;ve got available. You&#8217;ve written down a section of tools that you like, which I think is quite interesting. We don&#8217;t really get into this conversation. So, what are some of the things that you are using in the year 2024? Obviously it&#8217;ll evolve over time. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re happy to jettison some tools, and adopt new ones as they come out. But where are you at right now? What are the mainstays of your tooling?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:44] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> Yeah, one note I would probably, one comment I would mention before going into the tools is that, it&#8217;s not really about the tools. It&#8217;s a mistake many managers and many beginners do, that they think that tool will solve a problem for them. But no, tool can only help you to solve a problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I will never, ever get over thinking that the tool will solve the problem. I make this mistake multiple times a year. Just get a new tool, and imagine it will fix all the things, and it never does. Anyway, sorry, an aside. You carry on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:13] <strong>Alexander Gilmanov:</strong> We all do this mistake. It&#8217;s a nice idea that you install the software, and you don&#8217;t have to worry about organising tasks anymore, something like that. So when I just became a manager, I was actually just doing some to-do lists, checklists, and it was sufficient. And I had a higher level checklists, and then drilled down into every point. Every point would have checklists under it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As of today, 2024, I believe the tools stack is more or less standardised in the industry. We use the Google Suite for docs, for sheets, for emails. We use Slack for real time communication. And sometimes I think if we should maybe reduce using Slack, because it creates sometimes too much of context switching, too many distractions throughout the day, especially for managers. That&#8217;s a pain point for managers, that they have so many messages, and people expect them to answer like within 10 minutes. Where is this doc you shared with us on Friday?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We use Jira for tracking the projects. And we use different kind of boards for different projects, because I think every team needs to decide on the process that works for them. We use agile for all projects, but somewhere we use more kanban kind of approach. We have no strict deadlines in terms of two week sprints, and for most projects we use two week sprints. And then we have sprint planning, sprint review, and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tasks are estimated in story points. Probably you&#8217;re familiar with agile scrum and with all this methodology. And it then also helps with the estimating, with reporting, with looking back at how many story points every release had.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We are using some of the Confluence, but actually for longer term, structured kind of project, and team documentation, we use Notion. It&#8217;s a very nice, very handy tool for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we have different layers like company policies, team structure, product related assets, product related standards, coding standards, marketing standards. Whenever we figure out an SOP, we put it there, we all know this is the app we use, and everything is in there. And it&#8217;s very helpful for onboarding new guys, because before that we had all those chaotic Google Docs folders, and every time we had to remember where to look for those, and now everything is in one place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What else do we use? There are tools we use here and there, like Discord for communities. Those are more task relevant tools, like for Google ads, Facebook ads, we use some of downloadable software to monitor and track, but this is less relevant for project management.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But for project management, I think Jira is the most important part. And we use GitLab for developers. It&#8217;s connected to all the servers, to the continuous integration, continuous deployment process, and to Jira. Whenever something is pushed for a certain task, Jira has a reference to it. Yeah, I think from the major software all of us use, that would be it. But as I said, it&#8217;s really about, really not about the tools.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Exactly right. It really isn&#8217;t about the tools. Also curious that you have selected what many other teams have selected. There are definitely some sort of star players out there, in those project management software, and things like that. They&#8217;re popular for a reason. But I think trying to wrangle the communication between a growing team, especially when you&#8217;re trying to onboard people, really a difficult thing to do. It&#8217;s almost impossible to keep everybody on the page.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I share your frustration with Slack. One of the things that I find difficult about Slack is just being able to keep up with something if you&#8217;ve had a day off or something. You know, you&#8217;ve suddenly got this linear feed of information, you&#8217;ve got to scroll right up there, and the expectation is the link that was buried in some threaded comment you should have seen and, well, I didn&#8217;t see it, I&#8217;m really sorry about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think probably we&#8217;ve gone through all of the different bits and the pieces that I wanted to go through. I am so appreciative of the amount of time that you&#8217;ve given to me. Enormous thanks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other thing that I would like to say is, what&#8217;s coming out of the conversation that we&#8217;ve had, I think is that, you view this as a journey. There&#8217;s no actual destination here, well, maybe there is. When you are 65 years old or something, and you are finally wishing to retire. 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(3, 1, '2024-06-24 08:23:00', '2024-06-24 08:23:00', '<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Who we are</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>Our website address is: https://demo10.clientwork.shop.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Comments</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>When visitors leave comments on the site we collect the data shown in the comments form, and also the visitor&#8217;s IP address and browser user agent string to help spam detection.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>An anonymized string created from your email address (also called a hash) may be provided to the Gravatar service to see if you are using it. The Gravatar service privacy policy is available here: https://automattic.com/privacy/. After approval of your comment, your profile picture is visible to the public in the context of your comment.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Media</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>If you upload images to the website, you should avoid uploading images with embedded location data (EXIF GPS) included. Visitors to the website can download and extract any location data from images on the website.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Cookies</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>If you leave a comment on our site you may opt-in to saving your name, email address and website in cookies. These are for your convenience so that you do not have to fill in your details again when you leave another comment. These cookies will last for one year.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>If you visit our login page, we will set a temporary cookie to determine if your browser accepts cookies. This cookie contains no personal data and is discarded when you close your browser.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>When you log in, we will also set up several cookies to save your login information and your screen display choices. Login cookies last for two days, and screen options cookies last for a year. If you select &quot;Remember Me&quot;, your login will persist for two weeks. If you log out of your account, the login cookies will be removed.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>If you edit or publish an article, an additional cookie will be saved in your browser. This cookie includes no personal data and simply indicates the post ID of the article you just edited. It expires after 1 day.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Embedded content from other websites</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>Articles on this site may include embedded content (e.g. videos, images, articles, etc.). Embedded content from other websites behaves in the exact same way as if the visitor has visited the other website.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>These websites may collect data about you, use cookies, embed additional third-party tracking, and monitor your interaction with that embedded content, including tracking your interaction with the embedded content if you have an account and are logged in to that website.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Who we share your data with</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>If you request a password reset, your IP address will be included in the reset email.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How long we retain your data</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>If you leave a comment, the comment and its metadata are retained indefinitely. This is so we can recognize and approve any follow-up comments automatically instead of holding them in a moderation queue.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p>For users that register on our website (if any), we also store the personal information they provide in their user profile. All users can see, edit, or delete their personal information at any time (except they cannot change their username). Website administrators can also see and edit that information.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What rights you have over your data</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>If you have an account on this site, or have left comments, you can request to receive an exported file of the personal data we hold about you, including any data you have provided to us. You can also request that we erase any personal data we hold about you. This does not include any data we are obliged to keep for administrative, legal, or security purposes.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n<!-- wp:heading -->\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Where your data is sent</h2>\n<!-- /wp:heading -->\n<!-- wp:paragraph -->\n<p><strong class=\"privacy-policy-tutorial\">Suggested text: </strong>Visitor comments may be checked through an automated spam detection service.</p>\n<!-- /wp:paragraph -->\n', 'Privacy Policy', '', 'draft', 'closed', 'open', '', 'privacy-policy', '', '', '2024-06-24 08:23:00', '2024-06-24 08:23:00', '', 0, 'https://demo10.clientwork.shop/?page_id=3', 0, 'page', '', 0),
(4, 0, '2024-06-24 08:23:03', '2024-06-24 08:23:03', '<!-- wp:page-list /-->', 'Navigation', '', 'publish', 'closed', 'closed', '', 'navigation', '', '', '2024-06-24 08:23:03', '2024-06-24 08:23:03', '', 0, 'https://demo10.clientwork.shop/2024/06/24/navigation/', 0, 'wp_navigation', '', 0),
(5, 1, '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '{\"version\": 2, \"isGlobalStylesUserThemeJSON\": true }', 'Custom Styles', '', 'publish', 'closed', 'closed', '', 'wp-global-styles-extendable', '', '', '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '', 0, 'https://demo10.clientwork.shop/2024/06/24/wp-global-styles-extendable/', 0, 'wp_global_styles', '', 0),
(6, 1, '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '0000-00-00 00:00:00', '', 'Auto Draft', '', 'auto-draft', 'open', 'open', '', '', '', '', '2024-06-24 08:31:55', '0000-00-00 00:00:00', '', 0, 'https://demo10.clientwork.shop/?p=6', 0, 'post', '', 0);

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_termmeta`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_termmeta` (
  `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
  `term_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `meta_key` varchar(255) DEFAULT NULL,
  `meta_value` longtext DEFAULT NULL
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_terms`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_terms` (
  `term_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
  `name` varchar(200) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `slug` varchar(200) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `term_group` bigint(10) NOT NULL DEFAULT 0
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wpnn_terms`
--

INSERT INTO `wpnn_terms` (`term_id`, `name`, `slug`, `term_group`) VALUES
(1, 'Uncategorized', 'uncategorized', 0),
(2, 'extendable', 'extendable', 0);

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_term_relationships`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_term_relationships` (
  `object_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `term_taxonomy_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `term_order` int(11) NOT NULL DEFAULT 0
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wpnn_term_relationships`
--

INSERT INTO `wpnn_term_relationships` (`object_id`, `term_taxonomy_id`, `term_order`) VALUES
(1, 1, 0),
(5, 2, 0);

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_term_taxonomy` (
  `term_taxonomy_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
  `term_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `taxonomy` varchar(32) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `description` longtext NOT NULL,
  `parent` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `count` bigint(20) NOT NULL DEFAULT 0
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
--

INSERT INTO `wpnn_term_taxonomy` (`term_taxonomy_id`, `term_id`, `taxonomy`, `description`, `parent`, `count`) VALUES
(1, 1, 'category', '', 0, 1),
(2, 2, 'wp_theme', '', 0, 1);

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_usermeta`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_usermeta` (
  `umeta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
  `user_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `meta_key` varchar(255) DEFAULT NULL,
  `meta_value` longtext DEFAULT NULL
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wpnn_usermeta`
--

INSERT INTO `wpnn_usermeta` (`umeta_id`, `user_id`, `meta_key`, `meta_value`) VALUES
(1, 1, 'nickname', 'siteadmin'),
(2, 1, 'first_name', ''),
(3, 1, 'last_name', ''),
(4, 1, 'description', ''),
(5, 1, 'rich_editing', 'true'),
(6, 1, 'syntax_highlighting', 'true'),
(7, 1, 'comment_shortcuts', 'false'),
(8, 1, 'admin_color', 'fresh'),
(9, 1, 'use_ssl', '0'),
(10, 1, 'show_admin_bar_front', 'true'),
(11, 1, 'locale', ''),
(12, 1, 'wpnn_capabilities', 'a:1:{s:13:\"administrator\";b:1;}'),
(13, 1, 'wpnn_user_level', '10'),
(14, 1, 'dismissed_wp_pointers', ''),
(15, 1, 'show_welcome_panel', '1'),
(16, 1, 'session_tokens', 'a:1:{s:64:\"69ee0696673caf0003831c64ceaa7d5c0c4650584ff3018b74815d60b08e1c1b\";a:4:{s:10:\"expiration\";i:1719390711;s:2:\"ip\";s:13:\"119.73.99.200\";s:2:\"ua\";s:111:\"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/126.0.0.0 Safari/537.36\";s:5:\"login\";i:1719217911;}}'),
(17, 1, 'wpnn_dashboard_quick_press_last_post_id', '6'),
(18, 1, 'community-events-location', 'a:1:{s:2:\"ip\";s:11:\"119.73.99.0\";}');

-- --------------------------------------------------------

--
-- Table structure for table `wpnn_users`
--

CREATE TABLE `wpnn_users` (
  `ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL,
  `user_login` varchar(60) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_pass` varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_nicename` varchar(50) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_email` varchar(100) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_url` varchar(100) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_registered` datetime NOT NULL DEFAULT '0000-00-00 00:00:00',
  `user_activation_key` varchar(255) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
  `user_status` int(11) NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
  `display_name` varchar(250) NOT NULL DEFAULT ''
) ENGINE=InnoDB DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8mb4 COLLATE=utf8mb4_unicode_520_ci;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wpnn_users`
--

INSERT INTO `wpnn_users` (`ID`, `user_login`, `user_pass`, `user_nicename`, `user_email`, `user_url`, `user_registered`, `user_activation_key`, `user_status`, `display_name`) VALUES
(1, 'siteadmin', '$P$BcTUdeIRpxuZQaGixj2ReYCyfOdQ6V/', 'siteadmin', 'admin@demo10.clientwork.shop', 'https://demo10.clientwork.shop', '2024-06-24 08:23:00', '', 0, 'siteadmin');

--
-- Indexes for dumped tables
--

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_commentmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_commentmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `comment_id` (`comment_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_comments`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_comments`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`comment_ID`),
  ADD KEY `comment_post_ID` (`comment_post_ID`),
  ADD KEY `comment_approved_date_gmt` (`comment_approved`,`comment_date_gmt`),
  ADD KEY `comment_date_gmt` (`comment_date_gmt`),
  ADD KEY `comment_parent` (`comment_parent`),
  ADD KEY `comment_author_email` (`comment_author_email`(10));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kadence_cloud_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kadence_cloud_events`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `type__post__time__consolidated` (`type`,`post`,`time`,`consolidated`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kadence_conversions_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kadence_conversions_events`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`event_id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `event_type__post__time__consolidated` (`event_type`,`event_post`,`event_time`,`event_consolidated`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kbp_countdown_entry`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_countdown_entry`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD KEY `user_ip` (`user_ip`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kbp_form_entry`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_entry`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD KEY `post_id` (`post_id`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kbp_form_entrymeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_entrymeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `entry_id` (`kbp_form_entry_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kbp_form_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_events`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `event_type__post__time__consolidated` (`event_type`,`event_post`,`event_time`,`event_consolidated`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_kbp_query_index`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_query_index`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_links`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_links`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`link_id`),
  ADD KEY `link_visible` (`link_visible`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_litespeed_url`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_litespeed_url`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `url` (`url`(191)),
  ADD KEY `cache_tags` (`cache_tags`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_litespeed_url_file`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_litespeed_url_file`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD KEY `filename` (`filename`),
  ADD KEY `type` (`type`),
  ADD KEY `url_id_2` (`url_id`,`vary`,`type`),
  ADD KEY `filename_2` (`filename`,`expired`),
  ADD KEY `url_id` (`url_id`,`expired`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_options`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_options`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`option_id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `option_name` (`option_name`),
  ADD KEY `autoload` (`autoload`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_postmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_postmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `post_id` (`post_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_posts`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_posts`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`ID`),
  ADD KEY `post_name` (`post_name`(191)),
  ADD KEY `type_status_date` (`post_type`,`post_status`,`post_date`,`ID`),
  ADD KEY `post_parent` (`post_parent`),
  ADD KEY `post_author` (`post_author`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_termmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_termmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `term_id` (`term_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_terms`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_terms`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`term_id`),
  ADD KEY `slug` (`slug`(191)),
  ADD KEY `name` (`name`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_term_relationships`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_term_relationships`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`object_id`,`term_taxonomy_id`),
  ADD KEY `term_taxonomy_id` (`term_taxonomy_id`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_term_taxonomy`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_term_taxonomy`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`term_taxonomy_id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `term_id_taxonomy` (`term_id`,`taxonomy`),
  ADD KEY `taxonomy` (`taxonomy`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_usermeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_usermeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`umeta_id`),
  ADD KEY `user_id` (`user_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpgn_users`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_users`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`ID`),
  ADD KEY `user_login_key` (`user_login`),
  ADD KEY `user_nicename` (`user_nicename`),
  ADD KEY `user_email` (`user_email`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_commentmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_commentmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `comment_id` (`comment_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_comments`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_comments`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`comment_ID`),
  ADD KEY `comment_post_ID` (`comment_post_ID`),
  ADD KEY `comment_approved_date_gmt` (`comment_approved`,`comment_date_gmt`),
  ADD KEY `comment_date_gmt` (`comment_date_gmt`),
  ADD KEY `comment_parent` (`comment_parent`),
  ADD KEY `comment_author_email` (`comment_author_email`(10));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_links`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_links`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`link_id`),
  ADD KEY `link_visible` (`link_visible`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_litespeed_url`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_litespeed_url`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `url` (`url`(191)),
  ADD KEY `cache_tags` (`cache_tags`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_litespeed_url_file`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_litespeed_url_file`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`id`),
  ADD KEY `filename` (`filename`),
  ADD KEY `type` (`type`),
  ADD KEY `url_id_2` (`url_id`,`vary`,`type`),
  ADD KEY `filename_2` (`filename`,`expired`),
  ADD KEY `url_id` (`url_id`,`expired`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_loginizer_logs`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_loginizer_logs`
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `ip` (`ip`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_options`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_options`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`option_id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `option_name` (`option_name`),
  ADD KEY `autoload` (`autoload`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_postmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_postmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `post_id` (`post_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_posts`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_posts`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`ID`),
  ADD KEY `post_name` (`post_name`(191)),
  ADD KEY `type_status_date` (`post_type`,`post_status`,`post_date`,`ID`),
  ADD KEY `post_parent` (`post_parent`),
  ADD KEY `post_author` (`post_author`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_termmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_termmeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`meta_id`),
  ADD KEY `term_id` (`term_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_terms`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_terms`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`term_id`),
  ADD KEY `slug` (`slug`(191)),
  ADD KEY `name` (`name`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_term_relationships`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_term_relationships`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`object_id`,`term_taxonomy_id`),
  ADD KEY `term_taxonomy_id` (`term_taxonomy_id`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`term_taxonomy_id`),
  ADD UNIQUE KEY `term_id_taxonomy` (`term_id`,`taxonomy`),
  ADD KEY `taxonomy` (`taxonomy`);

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_usermeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_usermeta`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`umeta_id`),
  ADD KEY `user_id` (`user_id`),
  ADD KEY `meta_key` (`meta_key`(191));

--
-- Indexes for table `wpnn_users`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_users`
  ADD PRIMARY KEY (`ID`),
  ADD KEY `user_login_key` (`user_login`),
  ADD KEY `user_nicename` (`user_nicename`),
  ADD KEY `user_email` (`user_email`);

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for dumped tables
--

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_commentmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_commentmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_comments`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_comments`
  MODIFY `comment_ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kadence_cloud_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kadence_cloud_events`
  MODIFY `id` int(11) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kadence_conversions_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kadence_conversions_events`
  MODIFY `event_id` int(11) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kbp_countdown_entry`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_countdown_entry`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kbp_form_entry`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_entry`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kbp_form_entrymeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_entrymeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=6;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kbp_form_events`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_form_events`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_kbp_query_index`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_kbp_query_index`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_links`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_links`
  MODIFY `link_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_litespeed_url`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_litespeed_url`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_litespeed_url_file`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_litespeed_url_file`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=5;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_options`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_options`
  MODIFY `option_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=5071;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_postmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_postmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2041;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_posts`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_posts`
  MODIFY `ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=8743;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_termmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_termmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=3;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_terms`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_terms`
  MODIFY `term_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=5;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_term_taxonomy`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_term_taxonomy`
  MODIFY `term_taxonomy_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=5;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_usermeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_usermeta`
  MODIFY `umeta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=27;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpgn_users`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpgn_users`
  MODIFY `ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_commentmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_commentmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_comments`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_comments`
  MODIFY `comment_ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_links`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_links`
  MODIFY `link_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_litespeed_url`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_litespeed_url`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_litespeed_url_file`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_litespeed_url_file`
  MODIFY `id` bigint(20) NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_options`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_options`
  MODIFY `option_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=398;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_postmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_postmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=3;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_posts`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_posts`
  MODIFY `ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=7;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_termmeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_termmeta`
  MODIFY `meta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_terms`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_terms`
  MODIFY `term_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=3;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_term_taxonomy`
  MODIFY `term_taxonomy_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=3;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_usermeta`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_usermeta`
  MODIFY `umeta_id` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=19;

--
-- AUTO_INCREMENT for table `wpnn_users`
--
ALTER TABLE `wpnn_users`
  MODIFY `ID` bigint(20) UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT, AUTO_INCREMENT=2;
COMMIT;

